ويكي عربآيز - مساهمات المستخدم [ar]

Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-18T21:46:41Z

Mfarag: /* Final Decision on Drupal's version */ Justification

<div dir=ltr >
This is the documentation page for the first of the two phases of revamping the Arabeyes website, per '''[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html Arabeyes meeting on Sunday 03 August 2008]''' on freenode IRC.

We will put here all information indexed historically in an ascending fashion (from old milestones on the top of the page to new ones downwards).

Only news of actual milestones allowed on this page.
Ideas and opinions to be put with signature (by typing "~" four times at the end of your post) on the discussion page.

<div dir=rtl >

هذه هي صفحة توثيق عمل فريق إنشاء الموقع الجديد لعربايز - المرحلة التجريبية، بناءا على ما تم في '''[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html اجتماع المشاركين من أعضاء مجموعة عربايز يوم الأحد 3 أغسطس 2008]''' على الآي آر سي - فري نوود.

سيتم فهرسة جميع المعلومات هنا تاريخيا بترتيب تصاعدي (أي من أقدم الأحداث والتي يتم ذكرها أعلى الصفحة نزولا إلى أحدثها).

يسمح بذكر وقائع الأحداث الفعلية فقط على هذه الصفحة، بينما توضع الأفكار والآراء موقّعةً (بإدخال علامة المدّ "~" أربع مرات في نهاية مداخلتك)
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:51، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)
----

<div dir=ltr >
==New Arabeyes Website Team==
Team by task:

* Project Manager/ Coordinator:
** Mohamed Farag
* Sys Admins:
** Prototype Phase:
*** Ossama Khayat [Joined 10 Aug with working 5.9 install]
*** Mohamed Farag
*** Abderrahim Kitouni
** Final Phase:
*** Mohamed Adnan
*** Youssef Chahibi
* Arabic Support, Localization:
** Mohamed Sameer [Resigned 10 Aug to be adviser only]
** Daif Al-Otaibi
* CMS Programming/ Coding as a whole:
** Mohamed Sameer
** Daif Al-Otaibi
** Abderrahim Kitouni
* Themes, Graphics, Styles, Layout, Web Design:
** Mohamed Farag
** Abderrahim Kitouni
** Youssef Chahibi [Joined 10 Aug]
* Documentation/ Wiki Maintenance:
** Mohamed Farag
** Abderrahim Kitouni [Joined 10 Aug]

==Decision on system standards ad selection:==

===Evaluation and selection of the new Arabeyes website's CMS===
Based on Arabeyes' 3 August 2008 meeting and mailing list members' input, a number of functions and features have been agreed by most members upon as required in the CMS (Content Management system) of choice. These capabilities are:

* Personal page profiles.
* News module.
* Download library.
* Revision Control System (i.e.: Subversion, CVS, etc.)
* Multilingual support.
* Role-based access control.

Discuss [https://www.arabeyes.org/%D9%86%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%B4:Arabeyes_New_Website_Prototype#Portal_departments]

=== Criteria for CMS selection: ===

=== Conclusion on best-Arabized CMSs ===
Here is a brief conclusion I drawn after readings, trying demos, and my oen experience with installations of the major portal CMSs framwroks:

* TYPO3: No Arabization group, no experts within Arabeyes, hard to learn quickly.

* Mambo: No Arabization group, no experts within Arabeyes.

* Plone: Arabization group. 100% translated. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]

* Drupal:
** Strong, old, active Arabization group.
** Experts within Arabyes: Amr Gharbeia, M. Sameer, others.
**Experts within other Arabization communities:Eglug and others [http://groups.drupal.org/arabization]

=== Drupal's version choice for Arabic pages ===
Alaa, one of the Drupal Arabization group commented on the Arabic translation files as:
"just an automated merge of the old translation to help translators, '''don't even try to use this release'''." [http://drupal.org/node/12996/release]

More on the subject:
* resource: [http://groups.drupal.org/node/3545#comments]
* resource: [http://www.developmentseed.org/blog/2008/mar/24/fantastic-rtl-support-drupal]

=== Drupal's version choice and upgradability ===
'''Upgrade plan for Drupal 7'''
Please discuss it here first, then we can write the conclusion after discussion.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drupal#Lack_of_object_orientation]

=== Call for working on Drupal 7 Arabization now ===
As we see .. version 7 is coming, and version 6 Arabic files are not yet ready for use!
I suggest working on Drupal 7 Arabization from now if possible, in order to have this language files ready on time of V. 7 release.
This will help us too in our upgrading plan, so we don't face this same situation again.

=== Final Decision on Drupal's version ===
'''Drupal 5.9 Decided in meeting 10 Aug 2008'''
For technical and practical reasons.

Please mention justification --[[مستخدم:أحمد|أحمد غربية]] 23:14، 10 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

Justification is [https://www.arabeyes.org/%D9%86%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%B4:Arabeyes_New_Website_Prototype#Drupal_.28_and_what_version_5.x_or_6.x_RC_.3F.29 here], plus, almost no member expressed any objection to our decision last general meeting held on Sunday 10 August. I am sorry no one updated the discussion page, but that what exactly happened, almost all members, including Khaled Hosney, Mohammed Sameer, Ossama Khayat, Mohamed Magdy, Abderrahim Kitouni and others. Some had opinion against the version ( which is 5.9) (namely: Mohammed Sameer), but as he didn't provide any details or reasons to members or convinced them to recommend another version, we went with the latest 5.x version. [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 21:46، 18 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

=== Live examples ===
http://www.ideapack.net/arabeyes/

=== References ===
* [http://xaneon.com/content-management-systems/drupal-vs-mambo_4.html]

== Decision on design standards and selection: ==
=== Website Sections ===

* Press section.
* Contact, about.
* Donation section.
* Project page
**URL alias, a name, about, logo, data, status ()
**Coordinator and contributers (user reference CCK field), date, logo (Image field) and various other fields.
* Members list page
* Hall of fame section.
* Member personal profile page

=== Screen resolution support ===

=== Page layout theme selection/ making ===
I prefer to see and evaluate available themes, and customiz them if needed, before we make our own from scratch. This will save us a significant amount or work and time.

=== User authentication ===
OpenID: available in Drupal 6.0, add-on module in 5.x --[[مستخدم:أحمد|أحمد غربية]] 23:12، 10 أغسطس 2008 (UTC).

=== Modules ===
Drupal provides core modules that comes with its installation files, and contributed modules that community members and groups have made it to be installed and activated later on.

I will list here all modules that are front-end (meaning: that almost all non-administrators can use and see), not the administration-specific core modules that work in the background.

techdict talk:Perl

2008-08-14T01:26:59Z

Mfarag: /* Comments */

==Votes==
* بيرل
{{ضد}} --[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 01:15، 14 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

* بـِرل
{{مع}} --[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 01:15، 14 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==Comments==
الكلمة نطقها هو:

perl

فتمثّل في العربية بحركة واحدة مكسورة على الباء

وليس

peerl

بحركتين تكونان معاً ياءً

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 01:26، 14 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

techdict talk:Perl

2008-08-14T01:15:53Z

Mfarag: /* Votes */ برل

==Votes==
* بيرل
{{ضد}} --[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 01:15، 14 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

* بـِرل
{{مع}} --[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 01:15، 14 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==Comments==

techdict talk:Floss

2008-08-13T20:56:51Z

Mfarag: /* اقتراحات */

==اقتراحات==
* البرمجيات المجانية الحرّة مفتوحة المصدر - اختصار لاسم: Free Libre Open Source Software [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 20:56، 13 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)
{{مع}} --[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 20:56، 13 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

* التعريف = البرمجيات - [[Software]] - الخاضعة لرخصة تتيح استعمالها وتوزيعها والتعديل في أكوادها - تسمى المصدر Source - والتي لابد أن تكون متاحة - مفتوحة [[Open source|Open]] - دون مقابل - [[Free software|Free]] - وفي حرية كاملة - Libre - دون أية قيود، مع شرط نسبة الكود المصدر لمؤلفه. [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 20:56، 13 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

{{مع}} --[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 20:56، 13 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==تعليقات==

techdict talk:Floss

2008-08-13T20:51:16Z

Mfarag: صفحة جديدة: ==اقتراحات== ==تعليقات==

==اقتراحات==

==تعليقات==

techdict:Floss

2008-08-13T16:08:06Z

Mfarag: wikifying

{{مصطلح|
|الاسم = البرمجيات المجانية الحرّة مفتوحة المصدر - اختصار لاسم: Free Libre Open Source Software
|التعريف = البرمجيات - [[Software]] - الخاضعة لرخصة تتيح استعمالها وتوزيعها والتعديل في أكوادها - تسمى المصدر Source - والتي لابد أن تكون متاحة - مفتوحة [[Open source|Open]] - دون مقابل - [[Free software|Free]] - وفي حرية كاملة - Libre - دون أية قيود، مع شرط نسبة الكود المصدر لمؤلفه. [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 15:56، 13 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)
|انظر أيضا =
}}
{{Lexicon Application Quitting}}

techdict:Floss

2008-08-13T15:56:27Z

Mfarag: Floss Entry Page Created

{{مصطلح|
|الاسم = البرمجيات المجانية الحرّة مفتوحة المصدر - اختصار لاسم: Free Libre Open Source Software
|التعريف = البرمجيات - Software - الخاضعة لرخصة تتيح استعمالها وتوزيعها والتعديل في أكوادها - تسمى المصدر Source - والتي لابد أن تكون متاحة - مفتوحة Open - دون مقابل - Free - وفي حرية كاملة - Libre - دون أية قيود، مع شرط نسبة الكود المصدر لمؤلفه. [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 15:56، 13 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)
|انظر أيضا =
}}
{{Lexicon Application Quitting}}

Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-10T22:57:31Z

Mfarag:

<div dir=ltr >
This is the documentation page for the first of the two phases of revamping the Arabeyes website, per '''[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html Arabeyes meeting on Sunday 03 August 2008]''' on freenode IRC.

We will put here all information indexed historically in an ascending fashion (from old milestones on the top of the page to new ones downwards).

Only news of actual milestones allowed on this page.
Ideas and opinions to be put with signature (by typing "~" four times at the end of your post) on the discussion page.

<div dir=rtl >

هذه هي صفحة توثيق عمل فريق إنشاء الموقع الجديد لعربايز - المرحلة التجريبية، بناءا على ما تم في '''[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html اجتماع المشاركين من أعضاء مجموعة عربايز يوم الأحد 3 أغسطس 2008]''' على الآي آر سي - فري نوود.

سيتم فهرسة جميع المعلومات هنا تاريخيا بترتيب تصاعدي (أي من أقدم الأحداث والتي يتم ذكرها أعلى الصفحة نزولا إلى أحدثها).

يسمح بذكر وقائع الأحداث الفعلية فقط على هذه الصفحة، بينما توضع الأفكار والآراء موقّعةً (بإدخال علامة المدّ "~" أربع مرات في نهاية مداخلتك)
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:51، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)
----

<div dir=ltr >
==New Arabeyes Website Team==
Team by task:

* Project Manager/ Coordinator:
** Mohamed Farag
* Sys Admins:
** Prototype Phase:
*** Ossama Khayat [Joined 10 Aug with working 5.9 install]
*** Mohamed Farag
*** Abderrahim Kitouni
** Final Phase:
*** Mohamed Adnan
*** Youssef Chahibi
* Arabic Support, Localization:
** Mohamed Sameer [Resigned 10 Aug to be adviser only]
** Daif Al-Otaibi
* CMS Programming/ Coding as a whole:
** Mohamed Sameer
** Daif Al-Otaibi
** Abderrahim Kitouni
* Themes, Graphics, Styles, Layout, Web Design:
** Mohamed Farag
** Abderrahim Kitouni
** Youssef Chahibi [Joined 10 Aug]
* Documentation/ Wiki Maintenance:
** Mohamed Farag
** Abderrahim Kitouni [Joined 10 Aug]

==Decision on system standards ad selection:==

===Evaluation and selection of the new Arabeyes website's CMS===
Based on Arabeyes' 3 August 2008 meeting and mailing list members' input, a number of functions and features have been agreed by most members upon as required in the CMS (Content Management system) of choice. These capabilities are:

* Personal page profiles.
* News module.
* Download library.
* Revision Control System (i.e.: Subversion, CVS, etc.)
* Multilingual support.
* Role-based access control.

Discuss [https://www.arabeyes.org/%D9%86%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%B4:Arabeyes_New_Website_Prototype#Portal_departments]

=== Criteria for CMS selection: ===

=== Conclusion on best-Arabized CMSs ===
Here is a brief conclusion I drawn after readings, trying demos, and my oen experience with installations of the major portal CMSs framwroks:

* TYPO3: No Arabization group, no experts within Arabeyes, hard to learn quickly.

* Mambo: No Arabization group, no experts within Arabeyes.

* Plone: Arabization group. 100% translated. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]

* Drupal:
** Strong, old, active Arabization group.
** Experts within Arabyes: Amr Gharbeia, M. Sameer, others.
**Experts within other Arabization communities:Eglug and others [http://groups.drupal.org/arabization]

=== Drupal's version choice for Arabic pages ===
Alaa, one of the Drupal Arabization group commented on the Arabic translation files as:
"just an automated merge of the old translation to help translators, '''don't even try to use this release'''." [http://drupal.org/node/12996/release]

More on the subject:
* resource: [http://groups.drupal.org/node/3545#comments]
* resource: [http://www.developmentseed.org/blog/2008/mar/24/fantastic-rtl-support-drupal]

=== Drupal's version choice and upgradability ===
'''Upgrade plan for Drupal 7'''
Please discuss it here first, then we can write the conclusion after discussion.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drupal#Lack_of_object_orientation]

=== Call for working on Drupal 7 Arabization now ===
As we see .. version 7 is coming, and version 6 Arabic files are not yet ready for use!
I suggest working on Drupal 7 Arabization from now if possible, in order to have this language files ready on time of V. 7 release.
This will help us too in our upgrading plan, so we don't face this same situation again.

=== Final Decision on Drupal's version ===
'''Drupal 5.9 Decided in meeting 10 Aug 2008'''
For technical and practical reasons.

=== Live examples ===
http://www.ideapack.net/arabeyes/

=== References ===
* [http://xaneon.com/content-management-systems/drupal-vs-mambo_4.html]

== Decision on design standards and selection: ==
=== Website Sections ===

* Press section.
* Contact, about.
* Donation section.
* Project page
**URL alias, a name, about, logo, data, status ()
**Coordinator and contributers (user reference CCK field), date, logo (Image field) and various other fields.
* Members list page
* Hall of fame section.
* Member personal profile page

=== Screen resolution support ===

=== Page layout theme selection/ making ===
I prefer to see and evaluate available themes, and customiz them if needed, before we make our own from scratch. This will save us a significant amount or work and time.

=== User authentication ===

=== Modules ===
Drupal provides core modules that comes with its installation files, and contributed modules that community members and groups have made it to be installed and activated later on.

I will list here all modules that are front-end (meaning: that almost all non-administrators can use and see), not the administration-specific core modules that work in the background.

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-10T09:55:42Z

Mfarag: /* Abderrahim Kitouni */

<div dir=ltr >
'''I compiled all the viewpoints and its discussions from the mailinglist and the meeting transcript to be here in a one documentation place for easy reference and manipulation.

I categorized them by subject/decision, following that by its supporters' discussions.
Original proceedings can be found here:
* Meeting transcript: [http://files.djihed.com/arabeyes/030308.txt]
* Mailinglist archive: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00007.html]
* If you found something missing, please update this page with it, thankfully.
* Please comment if needed starting a new line with ">>", and signing your name "four ~".
* I put others' replies to each post with > before paragraph.
* You will find my comments in bold and with "===>" before my own paragraph.

Thanks'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Drupal ( and what version 5.x or 6.x RC ?)=
== Khaled Hosney ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00008.html]
I've been doing some work lately on drupal 6 (this page it bite
outdated, but I think the file is updated), we need to know the modules
used on the site and prioritise its translation.

'''===> So, do you vote for 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? ?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

- Said:
AFAIK, drupal 6 has much better multilingual support than 5.x series,
which is critical to our need. In the meantime we can test and fix the
translation as needed.

'''===> Still need your final vote''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Mohammed Sameer ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]
I'd go for 5.x for now but for different reasons:

1) CCK and views for drupal 6 are still RC. The final releases are not there

yet. I doubt you will build a serious website without them unless you are going to do all the custom content types and views manually which is wrong IMHO.

'''===> You are absolutely correct..'''
* [http://drupal.org/node/277862 views status]
* [http://drupal.org/project/cck cck status]
'''It seems that this CMS 6.x releases have been released without all modules ready!''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

2) Drupal.org is not yet using drupal 6 for the above reason. If you feel brave enough to use Drupal 6 for arabeyes while drupal.org is not using it yet.

'''===>Update:'''
Drupal.org is going to upgrade to Drupal 6, saying leaving it on 5.x until now was a "mistake"":
[http://www.buytaert.net/drupal-org-status-update Dries Buytaert blog] ..Skip to paragraph #5

'''===> So, Are you voting for Drupal 5.9 ? or an earlier version?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==Abderrahim Kitouni==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00016.html]
Just in case you don't know what was already done, I've made a drupal install at http://abderrahim.arablug.org/arabeyes/ , I've tried to make a theme similar to the wiki. I've stopped working on it because CCK and views aren't ready.

Said:
btw, I think it's worth testing cck and views actual versions before trying to use Drupal 5.x (that install uses 6.1 IIRC).

'''===> Some questions:'''
* Why your URL doesn't work, and just give error:
"The page isn't redirecting properly"
* What version is your install?
* Why your install use cck & views version 6.1 RC not 5.x ?

and..
'''Are you voting for Drupal 6.3, 5.9 ? or an earlier version?'''

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:33، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Drupal Translation - ترجمة دروبال ==

كما قلت من قبل في القائمة البريدية، الترجمة ليست مشكلة ويمكننا إكمالها في أسبوع أو شيء من هذا القبيل. علينا إذن أن نحدد الإصدارة التي ستستخدم بناء على المعايير الأخرى بغض النظر عن حالة الترجمة فهذه يمكن التعامل معها لاحقا. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 17:45، 8 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Joomla =

== Ossama Khayat ==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00009.html]
AFAIR, the problem with Drupal is that it doesn't have full localization support, at least for menus. That is the main reason why I use Joomla.

>M. Sameer said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00012.html]
>Not true. There are ways to do it. Check this please: >sanabelnetwork.org
....
>This was done using the i18n module.

Ossama Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00020.html]
The screencast I watched here http://drupal.org/node/201788 talked about this. I was referring to Drupal 6 and that's why I thought it wasn't possible.

'''===> So, do you vote for Joomla, or Drupal 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? '''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Plone =

==Mohamed Farag==

* I found that Plone 3 has an Arabization group (not clear who are the members, no group page).
* They announced on the translations page that Arabic is 100% translated.
* They claim that Plone has the best integrated internationalization among all other CMSs. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]
* I don't know if Plone has any supporters or experts among Arabeyes team?
* I don't know either if the current website is using Plone?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

'''Update'''
Just to update on this:
I researched on Plone, trying to see if it is easy to install and use, in order to get a feel of the road of it.
* Unfortunately, it seems Plone (with its application server framework: Zope) is a large framework that has to be installed on at least a VPS or dedicated server with root-access, admin privileges, and guaranteed amount of RAM.

* It also needs Python programming language knowledge which is not very popular.

* Reference 1
[http://www.insmallsteps.com/faq/hosting/things-to-look-for-with-plone-hosting-services]
* Reference 2
[http://plone.org/documentation/faq/where-can-i-host-my-plone-site]

'''===> My decision: Not to recommend Plone for the new website.'''

= Content Migration Tool =

* Do we need a content migration tool of any kind to migrate all data from the current site - if using Plone - to the Drupal one, if we went for Drupal, or even for Plone 3 , a higher version?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

=Theme, layout, design =

==Youssef Chahibi==

Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00022.html]

I like the current website theming. Mimicking it would be functional yet good looking for a first draft.

==Abderrahim Kitouni==

Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00016.html]

I've made a drupal install at http://abderrahim.arablug.org/arabeyes/ , I've tried to make a theme similar to the wiki. I've stopped working on it because CCK and views aren't ready.

'''===> Site is down.''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 09:55، 10 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00024.html]

> * Multinlingual: this is probably priority 1. It has to support both Arabic and English. If a compromise has to be reached, go for Arabic. i.e the emphasis has to be on Arabic.

This is partly done , so I suggest to use my install, I'll try to update it
ASAP.

=LDAP Integration=

==Djihed Afifi==
Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html]

* On LDAP: adn, I know you are busy, but just let us know whether we can do this very easily. We currently have SVN + Wiki + trac + new site, and it would be nice to be able to integrate all three.

==Mohammed Adnene Trojette==
Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00030.html]

Sure we can switch to LDAP. It would be the best way to centralise authentication. I've asked chahibi to have a look at it and given him the rights to.

==Ossama Khayat==
Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00032.html]

I can help with it too if needed.

=Modules, Functions=
'''Suggested modules/ functions that are not mentioned on the project page, and need more discussion before inclusion.'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:20، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Sub Projects Function ==
===KhaledHosny===
We need to have a way to set a project page with
maintainer, members, description. then some projects can be devided into sub-projects, say Quran project -> [libquran, qtquran, unicode integration, tex support, etc..] with some sort of svn integration and such

=== Mohammed Sameer ===
Said: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]

* How to handle sub projects ? I can't recall all the modules but they were not clean.

=== Djihed Afifi ===
Said:

With ability divide meta-projects into sub-projects.

Said: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00025.html]
Khaled's idea of "sub-projects" may also be nice. But please leave it off for now until we see what you guys come up with.

=Portal departments=
'''Suggested departments/pages that are not mentioned on the project page, and need more discussion before inclusion.'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:20، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==Arabeyes Jobs Forum==

===Mohamed Farag===
Said: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00025.html]

I'd like to include a section in the website for hiring Arabeyes members. Consists of profiles of members who like to announce their availability for
hire, as a service to members. Also, as a next or parallel step, another section for companies or
individuals to post job requests in the field of computing in general and open source, linux/unix and localization in particular. Let's say:
Arabeyes job forum.
It can include also a volunteer job section for our use and others' use.

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-10T09:53:25Z

Mfarag: Plone decision/* Mohamed Farag */

<div dir=ltr >
'''I compiled all the viewpoints and its discussions from the mailinglist and the meeting transcript to be here in a one documentation place for easy reference and manipulation.

I categorized them by subject/decision, following that by its supporters' discussions.
Original proceedings can be found here:
* Meeting transcript: [http://files.djihed.com/arabeyes/030308.txt]
* Mailinglist archive: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00007.html]
* If you found something missing, please update this page with it, thankfully.
* Please comment if needed starting a new line with ">>", and signing your name "four ~".
* I put others' replies to each post with > before paragraph.
* You will find my comments in bold and with "===>" before my own paragraph.

Thanks'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Drupal ( and what version 5.x or 6.x RC ?)=
== Khaled Hosney ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00008.html]
I've been doing some work lately on drupal 6 (this page it bite
outdated, but I think the file is updated), we need to know the modules
used on the site and prioritise its translation.

'''===> So, do you vote for 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? ?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

- Said:
AFAIK, drupal 6 has much better multilingual support than 5.x series,
which is critical to our need. In the meantime we can test and fix the
translation as needed.

'''===> Still need your final vote''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Mohammed Sameer ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]
I'd go for 5.x for now but for different reasons:

1) CCK and views for drupal 6 are still RC. The final releases are not there

yet. I doubt you will build a serious website without them unless you are going to do all the custom content types and views manually which is wrong IMHO.

'''===> You are absolutely correct..'''
* [http://drupal.org/node/277862 views status]
* [http://drupal.org/project/cck cck status]
'''It seems that this CMS 6.x releases have been released without all modules ready!''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

2) Drupal.org is not yet using drupal 6 for the above reason. If you feel brave enough to use Drupal 6 for arabeyes while drupal.org is not using it yet.

'''===>Update:'''
Drupal.org is going to upgrade to Drupal 6, saying leaving it on 5.x until now was a "mistake"":
[http://www.buytaert.net/drupal-org-status-update Dries Buytaert blog] ..Skip to paragraph #5

'''===> So, Are you voting for Drupal 5.9 ? or an earlier version?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==Abderrahim Kitouni==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00016.html]
Just in case you don't know what was already done, I've made a drupal install at http://abderrahim.arablug.org/arabeyes/ , I've tried to make a theme similar to the wiki. I've stopped working on it because CCK and views aren't ready.

Said:
btw, I think it's worth testing cck and views actual versions before trying to use Drupal 5.x (that install uses 6.1 IIRC).

'''===> Some questions:'''
* Why your URL doesn't work, and just give error:
"The page isn't redirecting properly"
* What version is your install?
* Why your install use cck & views version 6.1 RC not 5.x ?

and..
'''Are you voting for Drupal 6.3, 5.9 ? or an earlier version?'''

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:33، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Drupal Translation - ترجمة دروبال ==

كما قلت من قبل في القائمة البريدية، الترجمة ليست مشكلة ويمكننا إكمالها في أسبوع أو شيء من هذا القبيل. علينا إذن أن نحدد الإصدارة التي ستستخدم بناء على المعايير الأخرى بغض النظر عن حالة الترجمة فهذه يمكن التعامل معها لاحقا. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 17:45، 8 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Joomla =

== Ossama Khayat ==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00009.html]
AFAIR, the problem with Drupal is that it doesn't have full localization support, at least for menus. That is the main reason why I use Joomla.

>M. Sameer said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00012.html]
>Not true. There are ways to do it. Check this please: >sanabelnetwork.org
....
>This was done using the i18n module.

Ossama Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00020.html]
The screencast I watched here http://drupal.org/node/201788 talked about this. I was referring to Drupal 6 and that's why I thought it wasn't possible.

'''===> So, do you vote for Joomla, or Drupal 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? '''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Plone =

==Mohamed Farag==

* I found that Plone 3 has an Arabization group (not clear who are the members, no group page).
* They announced on the translations page that Arabic is 100% translated.
* They claim that Plone has the best integrated internationalization among all other CMSs. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]
* I don't know if Plone has any supporters or experts among Arabeyes team?
* I don't know either if the current website is using Plone?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

'''Update'''
Just to update on this:
I researched on Plone, trying to see if it is easy to install and use, in order to get a feel of the road of it.
* Unfortunately, it seems Plone (with its application server framework: Zope) is a large framework that has to be installed on at least a VPS or dedicated server with root-access, admin privileges, and guaranteed amount of RAM.

* It also needs Python programming language knowledge which is not very popular.

* Reference 1
[http://www.insmallsteps.com/faq/hosting/things-to-look-for-with-plone-hosting-services]
* Reference 2
[http://plone.org/documentation/faq/where-can-i-host-my-plone-site]

'''===> My decision: Not to recommend Plone for the new website.'''

= Content Migration Tool =

* Do we need a content migration tool of any kind to migrate all data from the current site - if using Plone - to the Drupal one, if we went for Drupal, or even for Plone 3 , a higher version?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

=Theme, layout, design =

==Youssef Chahibi==

Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00022.html]

I like the current website theming. Mimicking it would be functional yet good looking for a first draft.

==Abderrahim Kitouni==

Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00016.html]

I've made a drupal install at http://abderrahim.arablug.org/arabeyes/ , I've tried to make a theme similar to the wiki. I've stopped working on it because CCK and views aren't ready.

Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00024.html]

> * Multinlingual: this is probably priority 1. It has to support both Arabic and English. If a compromise has to be reached, go for Arabic. i.e the emphasis has to be on Arabic.

This is partly done , so I suggest to use my install, I'll try to update it
ASAP.

=LDAP Integration=

==Djihed Afifi==
Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html]

* On LDAP: adn, I know you are busy, but just let us know whether we can do this very easily. We currently have SVN + Wiki + trac + new site, and it would be nice to be able to integrate all three.

==Mohammed Adnene Trojette==
Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00030.html]

Sure we can switch to LDAP. It would be the best way to centralise authentication. I've asked chahibi to have a look at it and given him the rights to.

==Ossama Khayat==
Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00032.html]

I can help with it too if needed.

=Modules, Functions=
'''Suggested modules/ functions that are not mentioned on the project page, and need more discussion before inclusion.'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:20، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Sub Projects Function ==
===KhaledHosny===
We need to have a way to set a project page with
maintainer, members, description. then some projects can be devided into sub-projects, say Quran project -> [libquran, qtquran, unicode integration, tex support, etc..] with some sort of svn integration and such

=== Mohammed Sameer ===
Said: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]

* How to handle sub projects ? I can't recall all the modules but they were not clean.

=== Djihed Afifi ===
Said:

With ability divide meta-projects into sub-projects.

Said: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00025.html]
Khaled's idea of "sub-projects" may also be nice. But please leave it off for now until we see what you guys come up with.

=Portal departments=
'''Suggested departments/pages that are not mentioned on the project page, and need more discussion before inclusion.'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:20، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==Arabeyes Jobs Forum==

===Mohamed Farag===
Said: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00025.html]

I'd like to include a section in the website for hiring Arabeyes members. Consists of profiles of members who like to announce their availability for
hire, as a service to members. Also, as a next or parallel step, another section for companies or
individuals to post job requests in the field of computing in general and open source, linux/unix and localization in particular. Let's say:
Arabeyes job forum.
It can include also a volunteer job section for our use and others' use.

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T23:20:13Z

Mfarag: Sections added: Modules & Functions, LDAP Integration, Theme- layout- design, Portal departments

<div dir=ltr >
'''I compiled all the viewpoints and its discussions from the mailinglist and the meeting transcript to be here in a one documentation place for easy reference and manipulation.

I categorized them by subject/decision, following that by its supporters' discussions.
Original proceedings can be found here:
* Meeting transcript: [http://files.djihed.com/arabeyes/030308.txt]
* Mailinglist archive: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00007.html]
* If you found something missing, please update this page with it, thankfully.
* Please comment if needed starting a new line with ">>", and signing your name "four ~".
* I put others' replies to each post with > before paragraph.
* You will find my comments in bold and with "===>" before my own paragraph.

Thanks'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Drupal ( and what version 5.x or 6.x RC ?)=
== Khaled Hosney ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00008.html]
I've been doing some work lately on drupal 6 (this page it bite
outdated, but I think the file is updated), we need to know the modules
used on the site and prioritise its translation.

'''===> So, do you vote for 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? ?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

- Said:
AFAIK, drupal 6 has much better multilingual support than 5.x series,
which is critical to our need. In the meantime we can test and fix the
translation as needed.

'''===> Still need your final vote''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Mohammed Sameer ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]
I'd go for 5.x for now but for different reasons:

1) CCK and views for drupal 6 are still RC. The final releases are not there

yet. I doubt you will build a serious website without them unless you are going to do all the custom content types and views manually which is wrong IMHO.

'''===> You are absolutely correct..'''
* [http://drupal.org/node/277862 views status]
* [http://drupal.org/project/cck cck status]
'''It seems that this CMS 6.x releases have been released without all modules ready!''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

2) Drupal.org is not yet using drupal 6 for the above reason. If you feel brave enough to use Drupal 6 for arabeyes while drupal.org is not using it yet.

'''===>Update:'''
Drupal.org is going to upgrade to Drupal 6, saying leaving it on 5.x until now was a "mistake"":
[http://www.buytaert.net/drupal-org-status-update Dries Buytaert blog] ..Skip to paragraph #5

'''===> So, Are you voting for Drupal 5.9 ? or an earlier version?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==Abderrahim Kitouni==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00016.html]
Just in case you don't know what was already done, I've made a drupal install at http://abderrahim.arablug.org/arabeyes/ , I've tried to make a theme similar to the wiki. I've stopped working on it because CCK and views aren't ready.

Said:
btw, I think it's worth testing cck and views actual versions before trying to use Drupal 5.x (that install uses 6.1 IIRC).

'''===> Some questions:'''
* Why your URL doesn't work, and just give error:
"The page isn't redirecting properly"
* What version is your install?
* Why your install use cck & views version 6.1 RC not 5.x ?

and..
'''Are you voting for Drupal 6.3, 5.9 ? or an earlier version?'''

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:33، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Drupal Translation - ترجمة دروبال ==

كما قلت من قبل في القائمة البريدية، الترجمة ليست مشكلة ويمكننا إكمالها في أسبوع أو شيء من هذا القبيل. علينا إذن أن نحدد الإصدارة التي ستستخدم بناء على المعايير الأخرى بغض النظر عن حالة الترجمة فهذه يمكن التعامل معها لاحقا. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 17:45، 8 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Joomla =

== Ossama Khayat ==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00009.html]
AFAIR, the problem with Drupal is that it doesn't have full localization support, at least for menus. That is the main reason why I use Joomla.

>M. Sameer said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00012.html]
>Not true. There are ways to do it. Check this please: >sanabelnetwork.org
....
>This was done using the i18n module.

Ossama Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00020.html]
The screencast I watched here http://drupal.org/node/201788 talked about this. I was referring to Drupal 6 and that's why I thought it wasn't possible.

'''===> So, do you vote for Joomla, or Drupal 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? '''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Plone =

==Mohamed Farag==

* I found that Plone 3 has an Arabization group (not clear who are the members, no group page).
* They announced on the translations page that Arabic is 100% translated.
* They claim that Plone has the best integrated internationalization among all other CMSs. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]
* I don't know if Plone has any supporters or experts among Arabeyes team?
* I don't know either if the current website is using Plone?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Content Migration Tool =

* Do we need a content migration tool of any kind to migrate all data from the current site - if using Plone - to the Drupal one, if we went for Drupal, or even for Plone 3 , a higher version?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

=Theme, layout, design =

==Youssef Chahibi==

Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00022.html]

I like the current website theming. Mimicking it would be functional yet good looking for a first draft.

==Abderrahim Kitouni==

Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00016.html]

I've made a drupal install at http://abderrahim.arablug.org/arabeyes/ , I've tried to make a theme similar to the wiki. I've stopped working on it because CCK and views aren't ready.

Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00024.html]

> * Multinlingual: this is probably priority 1. It has to support both Arabic and English. If a compromise has to be reached, go for Arabic. i.e the emphasis has to be on Arabic.

This is partly done , so I suggest to use my install, I'll try to update it
ASAP.

=LDAP Integration=

==Djihed Afifi==
Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html]

* On LDAP: adn, I know you are busy, but just let us know whether we can do this very easily. We currently have SVN + Wiki + trac + new site, and it would be nice to be able to integrate all three.

==Mohammed Adnene Trojette==
Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00030.html]

Sure we can switch to LDAP. It would be the best way to centralise authentication. I've asked chahibi to have a look at it and given him the rights to.

==Ossama Khayat==
Said:[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00032.html]

I can help with it too if needed.

=Modules, Functions=
'''Suggested modules/ functions that are not mentioned on the project page, and need more discussion before inclusion.'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:20، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Sub Projects Function ==
===KhaledHosny===
We need to have a way to set a project page with
maintainer, members, description. then some projects can be devided into sub-projects, say Quran project -> [libquran, qtquran, unicode integration, tex support, etc..] with some sort of svn integration and such

=== Mohammed Sameer ===
Said: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]

* How to handle sub projects ? I can't recall all the modules but they were not clean.

=== Djihed Afifi ===
Said:

With ability divide meta-projects into sub-projects.

Said: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00025.html]
Khaled's idea of "sub-projects" may also be nice. But please leave it off for now until we see what you guys come up with.

=Portal departments=
'''Suggested departments/pages that are not mentioned on the project page, and need more discussion before inclusion.'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:20، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==Arabeyes Jobs Forum==

===Mohamed Farag===
Said: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00025.html]

I'd like to include a section in the website for hiring Arabeyes members. Consists of profiles of members who like to announce their availability for
hire, as a service to members. Also, as a next or parallel step, another section for companies or
individuals to post job requests in the field of computing in general and open source, linux/unix and localization in particular. Let's say:
Arabeyes job forum.
It can include also a volunteer job section for our use and others' use.

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T22:44:50Z

Mfarag:

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T22:42:01Z

Mfarag:

<div dir=ltr >
'''I compiled all the viewpoints and its discussions from the mailinglist and the meeting transcript to be here in a one documentation place for easy reference and manipulation.

I categorized them by subject/decision.
Original proceedings can be found here:
* Meeting transcript: [http://files.djihed.com/arabeyes/030308.txt]
* Mailinglist archive: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00007.html]
* If you found something missing, please update this page with it, thankfully.
* Please comment if needed signing your name.
* I put others' replies to each post with > before paragraph.
* You will find my comments in bold and with "===>" before my own paragraph.

Thanks'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Drupal ( and what version 5.x or 6.x RC ?)=
== Khaled Hosney ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00008.html]
I've been doing some work lately on drupal 6 (this page it bite
outdated, but I think the file is updated), we need to know the modules
used on the site and prioritise its translation.

'''===> So, do you vote for 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? ?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

- Said:
AFAIK, drupal 6 has much better multilingual support than 5.x series,
which is critical to our need. In the meantime we can test and fix the
translation as needed.

'''===> Still need your final vote''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Mohamed Sameer ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]
I'd go for 5.x for now but for different reasons:

1) CCK and views for drupal 6 are still RC. The final releases are not there

yet. I doubt you will build a serious website without them unless you are going to do all the custom content types and views manually which is wrong IMHO.

'''===> You are absolutely correct..'''
* [http://drupal.org/node/277862 views status]
* [http://drupal.org/project/cck cck status]
'''It seems that this CMS 6.x releases have been released without all modules ready!''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

2) Drupal.org is not yet using drupal 6 for the above reason. If you feel brave enough to use Drupal 6 for arabeyes while drupal.org is not using it yet.

'''===>Update:'''
Drupal.org is going to upgrade to Drupal 6, saying leaving it on 5.x until now was a "mistake"":
[http://www.buytaert.net/drupal-org-status-update Dries Buytaert blog] ..Skip to paragraph #5

'''===> So, Are you voting for Drupal 5.9 ? or an earlier version?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==Abderrahim Kitouni==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00016.html]
Just in case you don't know what was already done, I've made a drupal install at http://abderrahim.arablug.org/arabeyes/ , I've tried to make a theme similar to the wiki. I've stopped working on it because CCK and views aren't ready.

Said:
btw, I think it's worth testing cck and views actual versions before trying to use Drupal 5.x (that install uses 6.1 IIRC).

'''===> Some questions:'''
* Why your URL doesn't work, and just give error:
"The page isn't redirecting properly"
* What version is your install?
* Why your install use cck & views version 6.1 RC not 5.x ?

and..
'''Are you voting for Drupal 6.3, 5.9 ? or an earlier version?'''

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:33، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Drupal Translation - ترجمة دروبال ==

كما قلت من قبل في القائمة البريدية، الترجمة ليست مشكلة ويمكننا إكمالها في أسبوع أو شيء من هذا القبيل. علينا إذن أن نحدد الإصدارة التي ستستخدم بناء على المعايير الأخرى بغض النظر عن حالة الترجمة فهذه يمكن التعامل معها لاحقا. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 17:45، 8 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Joomla =

== Ossama Khayat ==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00009.html]
AFAIR, the problem with Drupal is that it doesn't have full localization support, at least for menus. That is the main reason why I use Joomla.

>M. Sameer said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00012.html]
>Not true. There are ways to do it. Check this please: >sanabelnetwork.org
....
>This was done using the i18n module.

Ossama Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00020.html]
The screencast I watched here http://drupal.org/node/201788 talked about this. I was referring to Drupal 6 and that's why I thought it wasn't possible.

'''===> So, do you vote for Joomla, or Drupal 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? '''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Plone =

==Mohamed Farag==

* I found that Plone 3 has an Arabization group (not clear who are the members, no group page).
* They announced on the translations page that Arabic is 100% translated.
* They claim that Plone has the best integrated internationalization among all other CMSs. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]
* I don't know if Plone has any supporters or experts among Arabeyes team?
* I don't know either if the current website is using Plone?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Content Migration Tool =

* Do we need a content migration tool of any kind to migrate all data from the current site - if using Plone - to the Drupal one, if we went for Drupal, or even for Plone 3 , a higher version?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T22:33:22Z

Mfarag: Abderrahim Kitouni section added

<div dir=ltr >
'''I compiled all the viewpoints and its discussions from the mailinglist and the meeting transcript to be here in a one documented place for easy reference and manipulation.

I categorized them by subject/decision.
Original proceedings can be found here:
* Meeting transcript: [http://files.djihed.com/arabeyes/030308.txt]
* Mailinglist archive: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00007.html]
* If you found something missing, please update this page with it, thankfully.
* Please comment if needed signing your name.
* I put others' replies to each post with > before paragraph.
* You will find my comments in bold and with "===>" before my own paragraph.

Thanks'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Drupal ( and what version 5.x or 6.x RC ?)=
== Khaled Hosney ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00008.html]
I've been doing some work lately on drupal 6 (this page it bite
outdated, but I think the file is updated), we need to know the modules
used on the site and prioritise its translation.

'''===> So, do you vote for 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? ?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

- Said:
AFAIK, drupal 6 has much better multilingual support than 5.x series,
which is critical to our need. In the meantime we can test and fix the
translation as needed.

'''===> Still need your final vote''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Mohamed Sameer ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]
I'd go for 5.x for now but for different reasons:

1) CCK and views for drupal 6 are still RC. The final releases are not there

yet. I doubt you will build a serious website without them unless you are going to do all the custom content types and views manually which is wrong IMHO.

'''===> You are absolutely correct..'''
* [http://drupal.org/node/277862 views status]
* [http://drupal.org/project/cck cck status]
'''It seems that this CMS 6.x releases have been released without all modules ready!''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

2) Drupal.org is not yet using drupal 6 for the above reason. If you feel brave enough to use Drupal 6 for arabeyes while drupal.org is not using it yet.

'''===>Update:'''
Drupal.org is going to upgrade to Drupal 6, saying leaving it on 5.x until now was a "mistake"":
[http://www.buytaert.net/drupal-org-status-update Dries Buytaert blog] ..Skip to paragraph #5

'''===> So, Are you voting for Drupal 5.9 ? or an earlier version?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==Abderrahim Kitouni==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00016.html]
Just in case you don't know what was already done, I've made a drupal install at http://abderrahim.arablug.org/arabeyes/ , I've tried to make a theme similar to the wiki. I've stopped working on it because CCK and views aren't ready.

Said:
btw, I think it's worth testing cck and views actual versions before trying to use Drupal 5.x (that install uses 6.1 IIRC).

'''===> Some questions:'''
* Why your URL doesn't work, and just give error:
"The page isn't redirecting properly"
* What version is your install?
* Why your install use cck & views version 6.1 RC not 5.x ?

and..
'''Are you voting for Drupal 6.3, 5.9 ? or an earlier version?'''

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:33، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Drupal Translation - ترجمة دروبال ==

كما قلت من قبل في القائمة البريدية، الترجمة ليست مشكلة ويمكننا إكمالها في أسبوع أو شيء من هذا القبيل. علينا إذن أن نحدد الإصدارة التي ستستخدم بناء على المعايير الأخرى بغض النظر عن حالة الترجمة فهذه يمكن التعامل معها لاحقا. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 17:45، 8 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Joomla =

== Ossama Khayat ==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00009.html]
AFAIR, the problem with Drupal is that it doesn't have full localization support, at least for menus. That is the main reason why I use Joomla.

>M. Sameer said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00012.html]
>Not true. There are ways to do it. Check this please: >sanabelnetwork.org
....
>This was done using the i18n module.

Ossama Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00020.html]
The screencast I watched here http://drupal.org/node/201788 talked about this. I was referring to Drupal 6 and that's why I thought it wasn't possible.

'''===> So, do you vote for Joomla, or Drupal 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? '''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Plone =

==Mohamed Farag==

* I found that Plone 3 has an Arabization group (not clear who are the members, no group page).
* They announced on the translations page that Arabic is 100% translated.
* They claim that Plone has the best integrated internationalization among all other CMSs. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]
* I don't know if Plone has any supporters or experts among Arabeyes team?
* I don't know either if the current website is using Plone?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Content Migration Tool =

* Do we need a content migration tool of any kind to migrate all data from the current site - if using Plone - to the Drupal one, if we went for Drupal, or even for Plone 3 , a higher version?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T22:14:33Z

Mfarag: Content Migration Tool section added

<div dir=ltr >
'''I compiled all the viewpoints and its discussions from the mailinglist and the meeting transcript to be here in a one documented place for easy reference and manipulation.

I categorized them by subject/decision.
Original proceedings can be found here:
* Meeting transcript: [http://files.djihed.com/arabeyes/030308.txt]
* Mailinglist archive: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00007.html]
* If you found something missing, please update this page with it, thankfully.
* Please comment if needed signing your name.
* I put others' replies to each post with > before paragraph.
* You will find my comments in bold and with "===>" before my own paragraph.

Thanks'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Drupal ( and what version 5.x or 6.x RC ?)=
== Khaled Hosney ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00008.html]
I've been doing some work lately on drupal 6 (this page it bite
outdated, but I think the file is updated), we need to know the modules
used on the site and prioritise its translation.

'''===> So, do you vote for 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? ?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

- Said:
AFAIK, drupal 6 has much better multilingual support than 5.x series,
which is critical to our need. In the meantime we can test and fix the
translation as needed.

'''===> Still need your final vote''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Mohamed Sameer ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]
I'd go for 5.x for now but for different reasons:

1) CCK and views for drupal 6 are still RC. The final releases are not there

yet. I doubt you will build a serious website without them unless you are going to do all the custom content types and views manually which is wrong IMHO.

'''===> You are absolutely correct..'''
* [http://drupal.org/node/277862 views status]
* [http://drupal.org/project/cck cck status]
'''It seems that this CMS 6.x releases have been released without all modules ready!''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

2) Drupal.org is not yet using drupal 6 for the above reason. If you feel brave enough to use Drupal 6 for arabeyes while drupal.org is not using it yet.

'''===>Update:'''
Drupal.org is going to upgrade to Drupal 6, saying leaving it on 5.x until now was a "mistake"":
[http://www.buytaert.net/drupal-org-status-update Dries Buytaert blog] ..Skip to paragraph #5

'''===> So, Are you voting for Drupal 5.9 ? or an earlier version?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Drupal Translation - ترجمة دروبال ==

كما قلت من قبل في القائمة البريدية، الترجمة ليست مشكلة ويمكننا إكمالها في أسبوع أو شيء من هذا القبيل. علينا إذن أن نحدد الإصدارة التي ستستخدم بناء على المعايير الأخرى بغض النظر عن حالة الترجمة فهذه يمكن التعامل معها لاحقا. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 17:45، 8 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Joomla =

== Ossama Khayat ==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00009.html]
AFAIR, the problem with Drupal is that it doesn't have full localization support, at least for menus. That is the main reason why I use Joomla.

>M. Sameer said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00012.html]
>Not true. There are ways to do it. Check this please: >sanabelnetwork.org
....
>This was done using the i18n module.

Ossama Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00020.html]
The screencast I watched here http://drupal.org/node/201788 talked about this. I was referring to Drupal 6 and that's why I thought it wasn't possible.

'''===> So, do you vote for Joomla, or Drupal 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? '''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Plone =

==Mohamed Farag==

* I found that Plone 3 has an Arabization group (not clear who are the members, no group page).
* They announced on the translations page that Arabic is 100% translated.
* They claim that Plone has the best integrated internationalization among all other CMSs. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]
* I don't know if Plone has any supporters or experts among Arabeyes team?
* I don't know either if the current website is using Plone?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Content Migration Tool =

* Do we need a content migration tool of any kind to migrate all data from the current site - if using Plone - to the Drupal one, if we went for Drupal, or even for Plone 3 , a higher version?

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 22:14، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T22:05:57Z

Mfarag: plone section added , drupal translation section relocated

<div dir=ltr >
'''I compiled all the viewpoints and its discussions from the mailinglist and the meeting transcript to be here in a one documented place for easy reference and manipulation.

I categorized them by subject/decision.
Original proceedings can be found here:
* Meeting transcript: [http://files.djihed.com/arabeyes/030308.txt]
* Mailinglist archive: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00007.html]
* If you found something missing, please update this page with it, thankfully.
* Please comment if needed signing your name.
* I put others' replies to each post with > before paragraph.
* You will find my comments in bold and with "===>" before my own paragraph.

Thanks'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Drupal ( and what version 5.x or 6.x RC ?)=
== Khaled Hosney ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00008.html]
I've been doing some work lately on drupal 6 (this page it bite
outdated, but I think the file is updated), we need to know the modules
used on the site and prioritise its translation.

'''===> So, do you vote for 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? ?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

- Said:
AFAIK, drupal 6 has much better multilingual support than 5.x series,
which is critical to our need. In the meantime we can test and fix the
translation as needed.

'''===> Still need your final vote''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Mohamed Sameer ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]
I'd go for 5.x for now but for different reasons:

1) CCK and views for drupal 6 are still RC. The final releases are not there

yet. I doubt you will build a serious website without them unless you are going to do all the custom content types and views manually which is wrong IMHO.

'''===> You are absolutely correct..'''
* [http://drupal.org/node/277862 views status]
* [http://drupal.org/project/cck cck status]
'''It seems that this CMS 6.x releases have been released without all modules ready!''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

2) Drupal.org is not yet using drupal 6 for the above reason. If you feel brave enough to use Drupal 6 for arabeyes while drupal.org is not using it yet.

'''===>Update:'''
Drupal.org is going to upgrade to Drupal 6, saying leaving it on 5.x until now was a "mistake"":
[http://www.buytaert.net/drupal-org-status-update Dries Buytaert blog] ..Skip to paragraph #5

'''===> So, Are you voting for Drupal 5.9 ? or an earlier version?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Drupal Translation - ترجمة دروبال ==

كما قلت من قبل في القائمة البريدية، الترجمة ليست مشكلة ويمكننا إكمالها في أسبوع أو شيء من هذا القبيل. علينا إذن أن نحدد الإصدارة التي ستستخدم بناء على المعايير الأخرى بغض النظر عن حالة الترجمة فهذه يمكن التعامل معها لاحقا. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 17:45، 8 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Joomla =

== Ossama Khayat ==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00009.html]
AFAIR, the problem with Drupal is that it doesn't have full localization support, at least for menus. That is the main reason why I use Joomla.

>M. Sameer said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00012.html]
>Not true. There are ways to do it. Check this please: >sanabelnetwork.org
....
>This was done using the i18n module.

Ossama Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00020.html]
The screencast I watched here http://drupal.org/node/201788 talked about this. I was referring to Drupal 6 and that's why I thought it wasn't possible.

'''===> So, do you vote for Joomla, or Drupal 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? '''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Plone =

Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T22:02:11Z

Mfarag: /* Conclusion on best-Arabized CMSs */

<div dir=ltr >
This is the documentation page for the first of the two phases of revamping the Arabeyes website, per '''[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html Arabeyes meeting on Sunday 03 August 2008]''' on freenode IRC.

We will put here all information indexed historically in an ascending fashion (from old milestones on the top of the page to new ones downwards).

Only news of actual milestones allowed on this page.
Ideas and opinions to be put with signature (by typing "~" four times at the end of your post) on the discussion page.

<div dir=rtl >

هذه هي صفحة توثيق عمل فريق إنشاء الموقع الجديد لعربايز - المرحلة التجريبية، بناءا على ما تم في '''[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html اجتماع المشاركين من أعضاء مجموعة عربايز يوم الأحد 3 أغسطس 2008]''' على الآي آر سي - فري نوود.

سيتم فهرسة جميع المعلومات هنا تاريخيا بترتيب تصاعدي (أي من أقدم الأحداث والتي يتم ذكرها أعلى الصفحة نزولا إلى أحدثها).

يسمح بذكر وقائع الأحداث الفعلية فقط على هذه الصفحة، بينما توضع الأفكار والآراء موقّعةً (بإدخال علامة المدّ "~" أربع مرات في نهاية مداخلتك)
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:51، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)
----

<div dir=ltr >
==New Arabeyes Website Team==
Team by task:

* Project Manager/ Coordinator:
** Mohamed Farag
* Sys Admins:
** Prototype Phase:
*** Mohamed Farag
*** Abderrahim Kitouni
** Final Phase:
*** Mohamed Adnan
*** Youssef Chahibi
* Arabic Support, Localization:
** Mohamed Sameer
** Daif Al-Otaibi
* CMS Programming/ Coding as a whole:
** Mohamed Sameer
** Daif Al-Otaibi
** Abderrahim Kitouni
* Themes, Graphics, Styles, Layout, Web Design:
** Mohamed Farag
** Abderrahim Kitouni
* Documentation/ Wiki Maintenance:
** Mohamed Farag
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00025.html]

==Decision on system standards ad selection:==

===Evaluation and selection of the new Arabeyes website's CMS===
Based on Arabeyes' 3 August 2008 meeting and mailing list members' input, a number of functions and features have been agreed by most members upon as required in the CMS (Content Management system) of choice. These capabilities are:

* Personal page profiles.
* News module.
* Download library.
* Revision Control System (i.e.: Subversion, CVS, etc.)
* Multilingual support.
* Role-based access control.

=== Criteria for CMS selection: ===

=== Conclusion on best-Arabized CMSs ===
Here is a brief conclusion I drawn after readings, trying demos, and my oen experience with installations of the major portal CMSs framwroks:

* TYPO3: No Arabization group, no experts within Arabeyes, hard to learn quickly.

* Mambo: No Arabization group, no experts within Arabeyes.

* Plone: Arabization group. 100% translated. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]

* Drupal:
** Strong, old, active Arabization group.
** Experts within Arabyes: Amr Gharbeia, M. Sameer, others.
**Experts within other Arabization communities:Eglug and others [http://groups.drupal.org/arabization]

=== Drupal's version choice for Arabic pages ===
Alaa, one of the Drupal Arabization group commented on the Arabic translation files as:
"just an automated merge of the old translation to help translators, '''don't even try to use this release'''." [http://drupal.org/node/12996/release]

More on the subject:
* resource: [http://groups.drupal.org/node/3545#comments]
* resource: [http://www.developmentseed.org/blog/2008/mar/24/fantastic-rtl-support-drupal]

=== Drupal's version choice and upgradability ===
'''Upgrade plan for Drupal 7'''
Please discuss it here first, then we can write the conclusion after discussion.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drupal#Lack_of_object_orientation]

=== Call for working on Drupal 7 Arabization now ===
As we see .. version 7 is coming, and version 6 Arabic files are not yet ready for use!
I suggest working on Drupal 7 Arabization from now if possible, in order to have this language files ready on time of V. 7 release.
This will help us too in our upgrading plan, so we don't face this same situation again.

=== Final Decision on Drupal's version ===

=== Live examples ===

=== References ===
* [http://xaneon.com/content-management-systems/drupal-vs-mambo_4.html]

== Decision on design standards and selection: ==

=== Screen resolution support ===

=== Page layout theme selection/ making ===
I prefer to see and evaluate available themes, and customiz them if needed, before we make our own from scratch. This will save us a significant amount or work and time.

=== User authentication ===

=== Modules ===
Drupal provides core modules that comes with its installation files, and contributed modules that community members and groups have made it to be installed and activated later on.

I will list here all modules that are front-end (meaning: that almost all non-administrators can use and see), not the administration-specific core modules that work in the background.

Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T21:57:28Z

Mfarag: team section aded

<div dir=ltr >
This is the documentation page for the first of the two phases of revamping the Arabeyes website, per '''[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html Arabeyes meeting on Sunday 03 August 2008]''' on freenode IRC.

We will put here all information indexed historically in an ascending fashion (from old milestones on the top of the page to new ones downwards).

Only news of actual milestones allowed on this page.
Ideas and opinions to be put with signature (by typing "~" four times at the end of your post) on the discussion page.

<div dir=rtl >

هذه هي صفحة توثيق عمل فريق إنشاء الموقع الجديد لعربايز - المرحلة التجريبية، بناءا على ما تم في '''[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html اجتماع المشاركين من أعضاء مجموعة عربايز يوم الأحد 3 أغسطس 2008]''' على الآي آر سي - فري نوود.

سيتم فهرسة جميع المعلومات هنا تاريخيا بترتيب تصاعدي (أي من أقدم الأحداث والتي يتم ذكرها أعلى الصفحة نزولا إلى أحدثها).

يسمح بذكر وقائع الأحداث الفعلية فقط على هذه الصفحة، بينما توضع الأفكار والآراء موقّعةً (بإدخال علامة المدّ "~" أربع مرات في نهاية مداخلتك)
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:51، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)
----

<div dir=ltr >
==New Arabeyes Website Team==
Team by task:

* Project Manager/ Coordinator:
** Mohamed Farag
* Sys Admins:
** Prototype Phase:
*** Mohamed Farag
*** Abderrahim Kitouni
** Final Phase:
*** Mohamed Adnan
*** Youssef Chahibi
* Arabic Support, Localization:
** Mohamed Sameer
** Daif Al-Otaibi
* CMS Programming/ Coding as a whole:
** Mohamed Sameer
** Daif Al-Otaibi
** Abderrahim Kitouni
* Themes, Graphics, Styles, Layout, Web Design:
** Mohamed Farag
** Abderrahim Kitouni
* Documentation/ Wiki Maintenance:
** Mohamed Farag
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00025.html]

==Decision on system standards ad selection:==

===Evaluation and selection of the new Arabeyes website's CMS===
Based on Arabeyes' 3 August 2008 meeting and mailing list members' input, a number of functions and features have been agreed by most members upon as required in the CMS (Content Management system) of choice. These capabilities are:

* Personal page profiles.
* News module.
* Download library.
* Revision Control System (i.e.: Subversion, CVS, etc.)
* Multilingual support.
* Role-based access control.

=== Criteria for CMS selection: ===

=== Conclusion on best-Arabized CMSs ===
Here is a brief conclusion I drawn after readings, trying demos, and my oen experience with installations of the major portal CMSs framwroks:

* TYPO3: No Arabization group, no experts within Arabyes, hard to learn quickly

* Mambo: No Arabization group, or within Arabyes,

* Plone: Arabization group. 100% translated. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]

* Drupal:
** Strong, old, active Arabization group
** Experts within Arabyes: Amr Gharbeia, M. Sameer, others
**Experts within other Arabization communities:Eglug and others [http://groups.drupal.org/arabization]

=== Drupal's version choice for Arabic pages ===
Alaa, one of the Drupal Arabization group commented on the Arabic translation files as:
"just an automated merge of the old translation to help translators, '''don't even try to use this release'''." [http://drupal.org/node/12996/release]

More on the subject:
* resource: [http://groups.drupal.org/node/3545#comments]
* resource: [http://www.developmentseed.org/blog/2008/mar/24/fantastic-rtl-support-drupal]

=== Drupal's version choice and upgradability ===
'''Upgrade plan for Drupal 7'''
Please discuss it here first, then we can write the conclusion after discussion.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drupal#Lack_of_object_orientation]

=== Call for working on Drupal 7 Arabization now ===
As we see .. version 7 is coming, and version 6 Arabic files are not yet ready for use!
I suggest working on Drupal 7 Arabization from now if possible, in order to have this language files ready on time of V. 7 release.
This will help us too in our upgrading plan, so we don't face this same situation again.

=== Final Decision on Drupal's version ===

=== Live examples ===

=== References ===
* [http://xaneon.com/content-management-systems/drupal-vs-mambo_4.html]

== Decision on design standards and selection: ==

=== Screen resolution support ===

=== Page layout theme selection/ making ===
I prefer to see and evaluate available themes, and customiz them if needed, before we make our own from scratch. This will save us a significant amount or work and time.

=== User authentication ===

=== Modules ===
Drupal provides core modules that comes with its installation files, and contributed modules that community members and groups have made it to be installed and activated later on.

I will list here all modules that are front-end (meaning: that almost all non-administrators can use and see), not the administration-specific core modules that work in the background.

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T21:41:35Z

Mfarag: /* Ossama Khayat */

<div dir=ltr >
'''I compiled all the viewpoints and its discussions from the mailinglist and the meeting transcript to be here in a one documented place for easy reference and manipulation.

I categorized them by subject/decision.
Original proceedings can be found here:
* Meeting transcript: [http://files.djihed.com/arabeyes/030308.txt]
* Mailinglist archive: [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00007.html]
* If you found something missing, please update this page with it, thankfully.
* Please comment if needed signing your name.
* I put others' replies to each post with > before paragraph.
* You will find my comments in bold and with "===>" before my own paragraph.

Thanks'''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Drupal Version 5.x or 6.x RC ?=
== Khaled Hosney ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00008.html]
I've been doing some work lately on drupal 6 (this page it bite
outdated, but I think the file is updated), we need to know the modules
used on the site and prioritise its translation.

'''===> So, do you vote for 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? ?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

- Said:
AFAIK, drupal 6 has much better multilingual support than 5.x series,
which is critical to our need. In the meantime we can test and fix the
translation as needed.

'''===> Still need your final vote''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Mohamed Sameer ==
- Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00010.html]
I'd go for 5.x for now but for different reasons:

1) CCK and views for drupal 6 are still RC. The final releases are not there

yet. I doubt you will build a serious website without them unless you are going to do all the custom content types and views manually which is wrong IMHO.

'''===> You are absolutely correct..'''
* [http://drupal.org/node/277862 views status]
* [http://drupal.org/project/cck cck status]
'''It seems that this CMS 6.x releases have been released without all modules ready!''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

2) Drupal.org is not yet using drupal 6 for the above reason. If you feel brave enough to use Drupal 6 for arabeyes while drupal.org is not using it yet.

'''===>Update:'''
Drupal.org is going to upgrade to Drupal 6, saying leaving it on 5.x until now was a "mistake"":
[http://www.buytaert.net/drupal-org-status-update Dries Buytaert blog] ..Skip to paragraph #5

'''===> So, Are you voting for Drupal 5.9 ? or an earlier version?''' [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Joomla =

== Ossama Khayat ==
Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00009.html]
AFAIR, the problem with Drupal is that it doesn't have full localization support, at least for menus. That is the main reason why I use Joomla.

>M. Sameer said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00012.html]
>Not true. There are ways to do it. Check this please: >sanabelnetwork.org
....
>This was done using the i18n module.

Ossama Said:
[http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00020.html]
The screencast I watched here http://drupal.org/node/201788 talked about this. I was referring to Drupal 6 and that's why I thought it wasn't possible.

'''===> So, do you vote for Joomla, or Drupal 6.3 or 5.9 or an earlier version? '''
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:35، 9 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

= Drupal Translation - ترجمة دروبال =

كما قلت من قبل في القائمة البريدية، الترجمة ليست مشكلة ويمكننا إكمالها في أسبوع أو شيء من هذا القبيل. علينا إذن أن نحدد الإصدارة التي ستستخدم بناء على المعايير الأخرى بغض النظر عن حالة الترجمة فهذه يمكن التعامل معها لاحقا. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 17:45، 8 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T18:48:30Z

Mfarag: /* Ossama Khayat */

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T18:46:44Z

Mfarag: /* Khaled Hosney */

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T18:45:19Z

Mfarag:

نقاش:Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-09T18:35:43Z

Mfarag: Meeting Transcript and Mailinglist contributions Added on Categories

Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-08T17:09:59Z

Mfarag: Pprototype details

<div dir=ltr >
This is the documentation page for the first of the two phases of revamping the Arabeyes website, per [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html Arabeyes meeting on Sunday 03 August 2008] on freenode IRC.

We will put here all information indexed historically in an ascending fashion (from old milestones on the top of the page to new ones downwards).

Only news of actual milestones allowed on this page.
Ideas and opinions to be put with signature (by typing "~" four times at the end of your post) on the discussion page.

<div dir=rtl >

هذه هي صفحة توثيق عمل فريق إنشاء الموقع الجديد لعربايز - المرحلة التجريبية، بناءا على ما تم في [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html اجتماع المشاركين من أعضاء مجموعة عربايز يوم الأحد 3 أغسطس 2008] على الآي آر سي - فري نوود.

سيتم فهرسة جميع المعلومات هنا تاريخيا بترتيب تصاعدي (أي من أقدم الأحداث والتي يتم ذكرها أعلى الصفحة نزولا إلى أحدثها).

يسمح بذكر وقائع الأحداث الفعلية فقط على هذه الصفحة، بينما توضع الأفكار والآراء موقّعةً (بإدخال علامة المدّ "~" أربع مرات في نهاية مداخلتك)
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:51، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)
----

<div dir=ltr >

==Desision on system standards ad selection:==

===Evaluation and selection of the new Arabeyes website's CMS===
Based on Arabeyes' 3 August 2008 meeting and mailing list members' input, a number of functions and features have been agreed by most members upon as required in the CMS (Content Management system) of choice. These capabilities are:

* Personal page profiles.
* News module.
* Download library.
* Revision Control System (i.e.: Subversion, CVS, etc.)
* Multilingual support.
* Role-based access control.

=== Criteria for CMS selection: ===

=== Conclusion on best-Arabized CMSs ===
Here is a brief conclusion I drawn after readings, trying demos, and my oen experience with installations of the major portal CMSs framwroks:

* TYPO3: No Arabization group, no experts within Arabyes, hard to learn quickly

* Mambo: No Arabization group, or within Arabyes,

* Plone: Arabization group. 100% translated. [http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/existing-features/outstanding-multilingual-content-management]

* Drupal:
** Strong, old, active Arabization group
** Experts within Arabyes: Amr Gharbeia, M. Sameer, others
**Experts within other Arabization communities:Eglug and others [http://groups.drupal.org/arabization]

=== Drupal's version choice for Arabic pages ===
Alaa, one of the Drupal Arabization group commented on the Arabic translation files as:
"just an automated merge of the old translation to help translators, '''don't even try to use this release'''." [http://drupal.org/node/12996/release]

More on the subject:
* resource: [http://groups.drupal.org/node/3545#comments]
* resource: [http://www.developmentseed.org/blog/2008/mar/24/fantastic-rtl-support-drupal]

=== Drupal's version choice and upgradability ===
'''Upgrade plan for Drupal 7'''
Please discuss it here first, then we can write the conclusion after discussion.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drupal#Lack_of_object_orientation]

=== Call for working on Drupal 7 Arabization now ===
As we see .. version 7 is coming, and version 6 Arabic files are not yet ready for use!
I suggest working on Drupal 7 Arabization from now if possible, in order to have this language files ready on time of V. 7 release.
This will help us too in our upgrading plan, so we don't face this same situation again.

=== Final Decision on Drupal's version ===

=== Live examples ===

=== References ===
* [http://xaneon.com/content-management-systems/drupal-vs-mambo_4.html]

== Desision on design standards and selection: ===

=== Screen resolution support ===

=== Page layout theme selection/ making ===
I prefer to see and evaluate available themes, and customiz them if needed, before we make our own from scratch. This will save us a significant amount or work and time.

=== User authentication ===

=== Modules ===
Drupal provides core modules that comes with its installation files, and contributed modules that community members and groups have made it to be installed and activated later on.

I will list here all modules that are front-end (meaning: that almost all non-administrators can use and see), not the administration-specific core modules that work in the background.

Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-08T16:43:32Z

Mfarag: Pprototype road map index

Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-07T00:19:46Z

Mfarag: bidirectional wikifying code

Website Revamp

2008-08-07T00:15:48Z

Mfarag: Adding update on the creation of the documentation pages for the new website

<div dir=ltr >
The current Arabeyes website needs to be redone in order to support arabic we are going to use [http://drupal.org Drupal] for the new site. We want to reuse the maximum of modules (eventually adapting them) before writing our own.

The current website is constituted from these files:
<pre>
about.php docs.php language.php press.php todos.php
ace.php donate.php logout.php project.php user.php
addtodo.php finance.php mailinglists.php proj_trans.php viewtodo.php
admin.php help.php miniblurb.php register.php vote.php
arabeyes.php history.php news.php resources.php
benefits.php index.php nominate.php rss.php
contact.php join.php people.php thankyou.php
</pre>
about, docs, press, ace, donate, help, proj_trans, history, resources, benefits, contact, join and thankyou can be static pages.

language , logout, user, admin, register and rss functionality is (sort of) present in drupal core.

The rest (todos, project, mailinglists, vote) and any new features will be dicussed below.

CVS, Art, Wiki, Bugs, Planet, QaMoose aren't integrated in the website. it would be good to integrate them.

----

'''Update:''' 7-August-2008

The new website team has now two separate pages for serving the revamping process:

*[https://www.arabeyes.org/Arabeyes_New_Website_Prototype The Website Prototype Documentation Page]
for the experimental prototype phase of the new website project

*[https://www.arabeyes.org/Arabeyes_New_Website The New Website Documentation Page]
for the final phase of the new website project

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 00:15، 7 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

== Todos ==

== Project ==
[http://drupal.org/project/project Drupal projects management] may be extended to provide translations. --[[مستخدم:Abderrahim|عبد الرحيم]] 13:46, 27 أغسطس 2007 (PDT)

=== Translation Projects ===

=== Developement Projects ===

== Mailing lists ==
Arabeyes' mailing lists are using Mailman there is a [http://drupal.org/project/mailman_manager Drupal module] for integrating this in the website. or we can use a static page --[[مستخدم:Abderrahim|عبد الرحيم]] 13:46, 27 أغسطس 2007 (PDT)

== Vote ==
There hasn't been any vote since I'm with arabeyes (about 18 months). I'm not sure if it's still needed --[[مستخدم:Abderrahim|عبد الرحيم]] 13:46, 27 أغسطس 2007 (PDT)

== CVS ==

== Art ==
[http://drupal.org/project/gallery Gallery] module integrates a [http://gallery.sourceforge.net Gallery] in a drupal site. --[[مستخدم:Abderrahim|عبد الرحيم]] 13:46, 27 أغسطس 2007 (PDT)

== Wiki ==

== Bugs ==
We need more integration with our own bug tracking system a well as external ones. For example, when I browse Gnome page at Arabeyes, I can find a link that allows me to submit bug against Arabic gnome translation, either to bugs.arabeyes.org or bugs.gnome.org according to settings set by project's maintainer. A way to list existing bugs related to that project is a good idea too. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 13:56, 12 سبتمبر 2007 (PDT)

== Planet ==

== QaMoose ==

== New Features ==

== Joining Arabeyes ==
The whole process of joining Arabeyes needs some unification and simplification, one needs to creat one account for every thing, main site, wiki, cvs/svn, and may be bug tracking as well. So, a new user comes, reads "join us" page, fills a form linked there and then has his acconut on. Then he can log in the wiki/whatever using the same account, when he wants to join a specific project he can fill a form linked in that projects page (which sends those info to the maintaner, who decides how to deal with it), when he needs a cvs account he can fill another form that sends the needed info to the maintainer and/or Arabeyes admins, using the same account name for cvs and the same password if possible. Looks like too many forms :) but a unified system id far better than what we've now.

Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-06T23:58:11Z

Mfarag:

This is the documentation page for the first of the two phases of revamping the Arabeyes website, per [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html Arabeyes meeting on Sunday 03 August 2008] on freenode IRC.

We will put here all information indexed historically in an ascending fashion (from old milestones on the top of the page to new ones downwards).

Only news of actual milestones allowed on this page.
Ideas and opinions to be put with signature (by typing "~" four times at the end of your post) on the discussion page.

هذه هي صفحة توثيق عمل فريق إنشاء الموقع الجديد لعربايز - المرحلة التجريبية، بناءا على ما تم في [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html اجتماع المشاركين من أعضاء مجموعة عربايز يوم الأحد 3 أغسطس 2008] على الآي آر سي - فري نوود.

سيتم فهرسة جميع المعلومات هنا تاريخيا بترتيب تصاعدي (أي من أقدم الأحداث والتي يتم ذكرها أعلى الصفحة نزولا إلى أحدثها).

يسمح بذكر وقائع الأحداث الفعلية فقط على هذه الصفحة، بينما توضع الأفكار والآراء موقّعةً (بإدخال علامة المدّ "~" أربع مرات في نهاية مداخلتك)
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:51، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)
----

Arabeyes New Website Prototype

2008-08-06T23:51:52Z

Mfarag: Creation of the documentation page for the new website prototype

This is the documentation page for the first of the two phases of revamping the Arabeyes website, per [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html Arabeyes meeting on Sunday 03 August 2008] on freenode IRC.

We will put here all information indexed historically in an ascending fashion (from old milestones on the top of the page to new ones downwards).

Only news of actual milestones allowed on this page.
Ideas and opinions to be put with signature (by typing "~" four times at the end of your post) on the discussion page.

هذه هي صفحة توثيق عمل فريق إنشاء الموقع الجديد لعربايز - المرحلة التجريبية، بناءا على ما تم في [http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/general/2008/August/msg00021.html اجتماع المشاركين من أعضاء مجموعة عربايز يوم الأحد 3 أغسطس 2008] على الآي آر سي - فري نوود.

سيتم فهرسة جميع المعلومات هنا تاريخيا بترتيب تصاعدي (أي من أقدم الأحداث والتي تم ذكرها أعلى الصفحة نزولا إلى أحدثها).

يسمح بذكر وقائع الأحداث الفعلية فقط على هذه الصفحة، بينما توضع الأفكار والآراء موقّعةً (بإدخال علامة المدّ "~" أربع مرات في نهاية مداخلتك)
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 23:51، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)
----

techdict talk:Brute force attack

2008-08-06T18:39:58Z

Mfarag: /* اقتراحات */ هجوم بالقوة الغاشمة

==اقتراحات==
* هجوم بالقوة القاسية
* هجوم بالقوة الغاشمة - المرجع [http://www.bartleby.com/61/77/B0517700.html] [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:39، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==تعليقات==

techdict talk:Brute force

2008-08-06T18:38:52Z

Mfarag: /* اقتراحات */ قوة غاشمة

==اقتراحات==
* قوة قاسية
* قوة غاشمة - المرجع [http://www.bartleby.com/61/77/B0517700.html] [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 18:38، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==تعليقات==

techdict talk:Bareword

2008-08-06T04:40:33Z

Mfarag: /* اقتراحات */ اسم معرِّف

==اقتراحات==
* اسم معرِّف
المصدر [http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?bareword]
و [http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?bareword_uppercase_filehandles]
[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 04:40، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==تعليقات==

techdict talk:Backtracking

2008-08-06T04:26:17Z

Mfarag: /* اقتراحات */

==اقتراحات==
* تتبع خلفي
* اقتفاء [[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 04:26، 6 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

==تعليقات==

techdict talk:Backtracking

2008-08-06T04:25:29Z

Mfarag: /* اقتراحات */ اقتفاء

==اقتراحات==
* تتبع خلفي
* اقتفاء

==تعليقات==

techdict:Bibliography

2008-08-06T04:23:12Z

Mfarag:

{{مصطلح|
|الاسم = المراجع
|الأمر =
|الجمع =
|التعريف =
|انظر أيضا =
}}
{{حذف مصطلح|تابع لعلم المكتبات والوثائق Library and information sciences}}

techdict talk:Book mark

2008-08-06T04:10:42Z

Mfarag: /* Comments */

==Votes==
* علامة موقع

==Comments==
لم أجد هذا المصطلح سوى بصيغة
Bookmark

ملاحظات و استفسارات حول القاموس

2008-08-05T08:07:37Z

Mfarag: وضع تنقيط أمام فقرة

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

كوني متطفل على مشروع القاموس التقني ولم أواكب نشأته والحوار الذي سبق ذلك، فإني استبيحكم عذراً لسرد بعض الاستفسارات والملاحظات حول المشروع علنا نخرج بفائدة ولو يسيرة.

1) ما هي الحاجة لمشروع القاموس التقني في ضل توفر قواميس مشابهة أخرى صادرة من جهات رسمية معترف بها مثل المجامع العربية والهيئات العلمية وبعض الشركات؟! أليس هذا يعتبر تكراراً وإضاعة للمجهود وتشتيتاً لا مسوغ له؟
:: العكس هو الصحيح، كثرة القواميس الأخرى هو سبب التشتيت، والنتيجة أن المترجم لا يعرف إلى أين يرجع وفي حال الإختلاف (وما أكثره) أيهم يكون المرجع؟ لذا بدأ المشروع هنا لتجميع المشتت هنا وهناك، وفرزه وانتقاء افضله وإكمال الناقص. فكثير من المصطلحات الشائعة في مجال المعلوماتية اليوم لا وجود لها في أغلب هذه القواميس، بجانب الطبيعة المغلقة لأغلب هذه القواميس مما لا يسمح لنا (المترجمون) بالتفاعل معها. أيضا الدقة مفقوده من هذه القواميس، وأحيانا كثيرة تجد أن المصطلح ترجمه من لا يفهم معناه. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:09, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

'''أيضاً هناك:'''
* مجانية القاموس تجعله متاحا لجميع الناس، بدون قيود مالية.
* رقمية القاموس تجعله متاحا لجميع الناس، بدون قيود توزيعية أو جغرافية.
* رخصة القاموس تجعله متاحا لجميع الناس في أي مكان وزمان بدون قيود على نسخه وتوزيعه (مثلا: على الطلاب في دورة تدريبية أو مكتبات الجامعات أو توزع على موظفي شركات).
* رخصة القاموس تسهّل على ناشري القواميس الشبيهة النقل منه بدون قيود تتعلق بحقوق النقل.
* سرعة تحديث القاموس تجعله مرنا في الاستجابة للتطور اللغوي للمصطلحات الحاسوبية.
* محرروه ومراجعوه متخصصون أو على الأقل مهتمون وذوو خبرة في الحاسوبيات وتقنية المعلومات ومجيدون في الوقت نفسه للغتين العربية - فهي لغتهم الأم غالباً - والإنجليزية بحكم متطلبات مهنتهم أو دراستهم وتدريبهم في هذا المجال الذي يتطلب إجادة الإنجليزية، على العكس من الكثير من المعاجم والقواميس التقنية فهي إما أن تكون عامةً جداً فيكون تركيزها على فرع تقنية المعلومات ضعيفاً كماً وجودةً، أو تكون متخصصةً لكنها لأسباب عملية وتجارية لا تخضع للتدقيق من متخصصين في المجال -الذي يتطور يومياً - وتفتقر لعاملين في المجال لديهم المهارة اللغوية والفهم لما يقومون بترجمته، وليسوا مجرد لغويين يترجمون المصطلحات لغوياً لا استعمالياً بكلمات لا يفهمها المستخدم العربي أو لا تعبر عن حقيقة ومعنى المصطلح المترجم، مما يؤدي للّبس الدائم، وهي مشكلة تاريخية معروفة.
* وكذلك، فإن إصداره ليس إتخاماً للسوق فالقواميس التقنية والحاسوبية الحالية مازالت تحتاج التحديث والتدقيق والشمول والاستيعاب لفروع تقنية المعلومات وما أكثرها.

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 08:01، 5 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

2) ألحظ من المشاركين إحجاماً عن إيجاد كلمات جديدة لاستيعاب مصطلحات ومفاهيم جديدة. إن هذا يحد من قدرة المعرِّب كونه يحصره في عدد قليل من المفردات كما ويوحي بمحدودية اللغة العربية - وحاشاها.
:هذا ليس متعمدا. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:09, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

:2.1) هل القاموس هنا هو لتجميع المصطلحات الدارجة والترجمة بالمشهور و “تفصيح” العامي؟
::هذا وذاك، في الأصل نحن نحاول البحث عن الترجمة الأشهر للمصطلح، وفي حال وجدت ترجمة مستقرة فعلينا تحاشي تغييرها ما أمكن ما لم يكن بها عيب يفسد المعنى أو استخدامها للدلالة على مصطلحات متباينة المعنى مثلا. فالأقل صوابا ان كان شهيرا أفضل من الأصوب المجهول. بالنسبة للعامي فما عيبه، العامي أنبته أهل هذه اللغة، وأن أستعمل العامي أحب إلى من استعمال الدخيل، أعراب نجد من ١٥٠٠ عام ليسوا أفضل منا اليوم لو فهمت قصدي. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:09, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)
:::بالتأكيد هم ليسوا أفضل منا! وبالمناسبة، فالمعتمد في الفصحى هو لسان قريش وليس غيرها من القبائل. وما يجعل الفصحى مطلب في مثل هذه المشاريع -في رأيي المتواضع- هو استهدافها للعرب كافة مما يجعل العامية المتسمة دوماً بالقطرية غير مقبولة أبداً. كما أن الكلمات الفصحى ناضجة بمعنى أنك تجد لها توثيق في المعاجم ولها رصيد ثقافي يدعمها وهذا كله لا يتوفر في العامية. وأيضاً، استخدام العامية لا يتسق مع التراكم المعرفي فكيف نتنكر لموروث لغوي ضخم ونبدأ من جديد؟! فالأمر ليس من أحسن ممن، ولكن، ما هو أفضل الموجود. --[[مستخدم:Techana|تقانة]] 13:00, 23 يوليو 2007 (PDT)
::::أنا لم أقل أن نستبدل بالعربية العامية، بل ان اضطررنا لاستعمال العامية فلامانع، هو بالضبط كما لو ابتدعنا لفظا جديدا. لا يمكننا أن نقصر أنفسنا على المفردات العربية التي طورها العرب قديما، إن وجدنا لفظا فصيحا فبها ونعمت، وإلا فالعامية أفضل من اللجوء للفظ أجنبي. مثال على ذلك "دردشة" البعض يقول أنها عامية، مالمشكلة؟ هي لفظة اتفق أغلب العرب اليوم على استخدامها بهذا المعنى، فرفضها (برأيي) نوع من التنطع لا مبرر له. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 14:52, 23 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

:2.2) لماذا يستوحش من الكلمات الفصيحة غير المطروقة وكأنها ليست من العربية؟! ألا يعلم المشاركون أن الكثير من المصطلحات الانجليزية كانت غريبة على مسامع أبنائها حينما استخدمت لأول مرة؟ حتى لفظة Computer لقيت معارضة عندما استخدمت لتسمية ذلكم الجهاز العجيب! لابد أن يكون لدينا جرأة بالبحث والتنقيب في بحر اللغة العربية وانزال الكلمة على ما يناسبها وإن كانت تبدو غريبة للوهلة الأولى. فغرابتها ستزول متى ما درجت على الألسن وخطتها الأقلام وطبعتها المطابع.
:لا فظ فوك يا تقانة ! --[[مستخدم:Wasfi|وصفي جواد]]

:2.3) اشتهر العرب بتسمية أدق الأشياء بأسماء مميزة. بل قد يجمعون أكثر من اسم لشيء واحد ليحمل الاسم (بالإضافة لدلالته الوصفية) دلالة حاله أيضاً. وإنه ليجب علينا أن نقوم بهذا اليوم لما بين أيدينا من أجهزة وأدوات. فإن كنا لم نخترع الكثير مما نستخدمه، فليس أقل من أن نضع لهذه المخترعات مسميات تليق بمقام لغة القرآن الكريم وتراعي تاريخنا العريق.

::2.3.1) دعوني أمثل ببعض المصطلحات التي استخدمتها قبيلتي العربية منذ القدم لتسمية أجزاء جهاز بدائي لنزح الماء من الآبار: غَبَب - ثَفَر - قَتَب - مقاط - رشى - رسن - محالة - دراجة - قُف - سانية - ... إلخ. الكثير من هذه الكلمات تعتبر غريبة على مسامعنا اليوم لأنها مهجورة ولكنها لعهد قريب كانت مستساغة ودارجة.

:2.4) يجب علينا التخلي عن ثقافة “البتاع” فكل شيء لا نعرف له اسماً سميناه باسم غيره حتى تداخلت الأسماء وضاعت مدلولاتها. فبعد أن كان أجدادنا يجدون للشيء الواحد عدة أسماء، أصبحنا نجد للاسم الواحد عدة أشياء!!
::أتفق معك كل الأتفاق. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]]ّ

3) هل الغرض من القاموس استخدامه في الترجمة الآلية للبرامج وواجهات الاستخدام أم في الترجمة اليدوية “إن جاز التعبير”؟
:الغرض الإساسي هو أن يكون مرجعا يعود إليه المترجم، لكن من الجائز أن نستخدمه يوما لبناء قائمة من الكلمات كذاكرة ترجمة تستخدمها البرامج المساعدة للمترجم لاقتراح ترجمات سريعة لما يقوم بترجمته.--[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:09, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

4) هل يوجد لجنة تحكيم تختار الأنسب من بين المقترحات المقدمة لكل مصطلح وما هي مؤهلات أعضائها إن وجدت؟
:المصطلحات نختارها بالتوافق، لا يزعم أحد هنا أن له من الخبرة ما تحكمه في مساهمات الآخرين. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:09, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

5) هل تتوفر خدمة نسخ احتياطي خارجي موثوقة تحفظ ما تم انجازه في حال حصل عطل - لا سمح الله - وفقدت محتويات الموقع؟
:لدينا نسخة احتياطية الآن، وسيكون هذا بشكل منتظم إن شاء الله. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:39, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)
::يمكنني المساعدة في هذا الأمر. أتمنى ممن لديه مسئولية هذا الأمر الاتصال بي. --[[مستخدم:Techana|تقانة]] 13:00, 23 يوليو 2007 (PDT)
:::شكرا على العرض، أعتقد عدنان يتكفل بالأمر --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 14:52, 23 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

6) وأخيراً، يستحسن لو وضع بعض المشاركين من أهل العربية صفحة على الموقع تبين باختصار بعض أدوات الترجمة مثل الاشتقاق والنحت ونحوهما.

ملاحظات و استفسارات حول القاموس

2008-08-05T08:01:00Z

Mfarag: إضافة إلى الرد على سؤال : الحاجة لمشروع القاموس التقني

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

كوني متطفل على مشروع القاموس التقني ولم أواكب نشأته والحوار الذي سبق ذلك، فإني استبيحكم عذراً لسرد بعض الاستفسارات والملاحظات حول المشروع علنا نخرج بفائدة ولو يسيرة.

1) ما هي الحاجة لمشروع القاموس التقني في ضل توفر قواميس مشابهة أخرى صادرة من جهات رسمية معترف بها مثل المجامع العربية والهيئات العلمية وبعض الشركات؟! أليس هذا يعتبر تكراراً وإضاعة للمجهود وتشتيتاً لا مسوغ له؟
:: العكس هو الصحيح، كثرة القواميس الأخرى هو سبب التشتيت، والنتيجة أن المترجم لا يعرف إلى أين يرجع وفي حال الإختلاف (وما أكثره) أيهم يكون المرجع؟ لذا بدأ المشروع هنا لتجميع المشتت هنا وهناك، وفرزه وانتقاء افضله وإكمال الناقص. فكثير من المصطلحات الشائعة في مجال المعلوماتية اليوم لا وجود لها في أغلب هذه القواميس، بجانب الطبيعة المغلقة لأغلب هذه القواميس مما لا يسمح لنا (المترجمون) بالتفاعل معها. أيضا الدقة مفقوده من هذه القواميس، وأحيانا كثيرة تجد أن المصطلح ترجمه من لا يفهم معناه. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:09, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

'''أيضاً هناك:'''
* مجانية القاموس تجعله متاحا لجميع الناس، بدون قيود مالية.
* رقمية القاموس تجعله متاحا لجميع الناس، بدون قيود توزيعية أو جغرافية.
* رخصة القاموس تجعله متاحا لجميع الناس في أي مكان وزمان بدون قيود على نسخه وتوزيعه (مثلا: على الطلاب في دورة تدريبية أو مكتبات الجامعات أو توزع على موظفي شركات).
* رخصة القاموس تسهّل على ناشري القواميس الشبيهة النقل منه بدون قيود تتعلق بحقوق النقل.
* سرعة تحديث القاموس تجعله مرنا في الاستجابة للتطور اللغوي للمصطلحات الحاسوبية.
* محرروه ومراجعوه متخصصون أو على الأقل مهتمون وذوو خبرة في الحاسوبيات وتقنية المعلومات ومجيدون في الوقت نفسه للغتين العربية - فهي لغتهم الأم غالباً - والإنجليزية بحكم متطلبات مهنتهم أو دراستهم وتدريبهم في هذا المجال الذي يتطلب إجادة الإنجليزية، على العكس من الكثير من المعاجم والقواميس التقنية فهي إما أن تكون عامةً جداً فيكون تركيزها على فرع تقنية المعلومات ضعيفاً كماً وجودةً، أو تكون متخصصةً لكنها لأسباب عملية وتجارية لا تخضع للتدقيق من متخصصين في المجال -الذي يتطور يومياً - وتفتقر لعاملين في المجال لديهم المهارة اللغوية والفهم لما يقومون بترجمته، وليسوا مجرد لغويين يترجمون المصطلحات لغوياً لا استعمالياً بكلمات لا يفهمها المستخدم العربي أو لا تعبر عن حقيقة ومعنى المصطلح المترجم، مما يؤدي للّبس الدائم، وهي مشكلة تاريخية معروفة.
وكذلك، فإن إصداره ليس إتخاماً للسوق فالقواميس التقنية والحاسوبية الحالية مازالت تحتاج التحديث والتدقيق والشمول والاستيعاب لفروع تقنية المعلومات وما أكثرها.

[[مستخدم:Mfarag|Mfarag]] 08:01، 5 أغسطس 2008 (UTC)

2) ألحظ من المشاركين إحجاماً عن إيجاد كلمات جديدة لاستيعاب مصطلحات ومفاهيم جديدة. إن هذا يحد من قدرة المعرِّب كونه يحصره في عدد قليل من المفردات كما ويوحي بمحدودية اللغة العربية - وحاشاها.
:هذا ليس متعمدا. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:09, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

:2.1) هل القاموس هنا هو لتجميع المصطلحات الدارجة والترجمة بالمشهور و “تفصيح” العامي؟
::هذا وذاك، في الأصل نحن نحاول البحث عن الترجمة الأشهر للمصطلح، وفي حال وجدت ترجمة مستقرة فعلينا تحاشي تغييرها ما أمكن ما لم يكن بها عيب يفسد المعنى أو استخدامها للدلالة على مصطلحات متباينة المعنى مثلا. فالأقل صوابا ان كان شهيرا أفضل من الأصوب المجهول. بالنسبة للعامي فما عيبه، العامي أنبته أهل هذه اللغة، وأن أستعمل العامي أحب إلى من استعمال الدخيل، أعراب نجد من ١٥٠٠ عام ليسوا أفضل منا اليوم لو فهمت قصدي. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:09, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)
:::بالتأكيد هم ليسوا أفضل منا! وبالمناسبة، فالمعتمد في الفصحى هو لسان قريش وليس غيرها من القبائل. وما يجعل الفصحى مطلب في مثل هذه المشاريع -في رأيي المتواضع- هو استهدافها للعرب كافة مما يجعل العامية المتسمة دوماً بالقطرية غير مقبولة أبداً. كما أن الكلمات الفصحى ناضجة بمعنى أنك تجد لها توثيق في المعاجم ولها رصيد ثقافي يدعمها وهذا كله لا يتوفر في العامية. وأيضاً، استخدام العامية لا يتسق مع التراكم المعرفي فكيف نتنكر لموروث لغوي ضخم ونبدأ من جديد؟! فالأمر ليس من أحسن ممن، ولكن، ما هو أفضل الموجود. --[[مستخدم:Techana|تقانة]] 13:00, 23 يوليو 2007 (PDT)
::::أنا لم أقل أن نستبدل بالعربية العامية، بل ان اضطررنا لاستعمال العامية فلامانع، هو بالضبط كما لو ابتدعنا لفظا جديدا. لا يمكننا أن نقصر أنفسنا على المفردات العربية التي طورها العرب قديما، إن وجدنا لفظا فصيحا فبها ونعمت، وإلا فالعامية أفضل من اللجوء للفظ أجنبي. مثال على ذلك "دردشة" البعض يقول أنها عامية، مالمشكلة؟ هي لفظة اتفق أغلب العرب اليوم على استخدامها بهذا المعنى، فرفضها (برأيي) نوع من التنطع لا مبرر له. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 14:52, 23 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

:2.2) لماذا يستوحش من الكلمات الفصيحة غير المطروقة وكأنها ليست من العربية؟! ألا يعلم المشاركون أن الكثير من المصطلحات الانجليزية كانت غريبة على مسامع أبنائها حينما استخدمت لأول مرة؟ حتى لفظة Computer لقيت معارضة عندما استخدمت لتسمية ذلكم الجهاز العجيب! لابد أن يكون لدينا جرأة بالبحث والتنقيب في بحر اللغة العربية وانزال الكلمة على ما يناسبها وإن كانت تبدو غريبة للوهلة الأولى. فغرابتها ستزول متى ما درجت على الألسن وخطتها الأقلام وطبعتها المطابع.
:لا فظ فوك يا تقانة ! --[[مستخدم:Wasfi|وصفي جواد]]

:2.3) اشتهر العرب بتسمية أدق الأشياء بأسماء مميزة. بل قد يجمعون أكثر من اسم لشيء واحد ليحمل الاسم (بالإضافة لدلالته الوصفية) دلالة حاله أيضاً. وإنه ليجب علينا أن نقوم بهذا اليوم لما بين أيدينا من أجهزة وأدوات. فإن كنا لم نخترع الكثير مما نستخدمه، فليس أقل من أن نضع لهذه المخترعات مسميات تليق بمقام لغة القرآن الكريم وتراعي تاريخنا العريق.

::2.3.1) دعوني أمثل ببعض المصطلحات التي استخدمتها قبيلتي العربية منذ القدم لتسمية أجزاء جهاز بدائي لنزح الماء من الآبار: غَبَب - ثَفَر - قَتَب - مقاط - رشى - رسن - محالة - دراجة - قُف - سانية - ... إلخ. الكثير من هذه الكلمات تعتبر غريبة على مسامعنا اليوم لأنها مهجورة ولكنها لعهد قريب كانت مستساغة ودارجة.

:2.4) يجب علينا التخلي عن ثقافة “البتاع” فكل شيء لا نعرف له اسماً سميناه باسم غيره حتى تداخلت الأسماء وضاعت مدلولاتها. فبعد أن كان أجدادنا يجدون للشيء الواحد عدة أسماء، أصبحنا نجد للاسم الواحد عدة أشياء!!
::أتفق معك كل الأتفاق. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]]ّ

3) هل الغرض من القاموس استخدامه في الترجمة الآلية للبرامج وواجهات الاستخدام أم في الترجمة اليدوية “إن جاز التعبير”؟
:الغرض الإساسي هو أن يكون مرجعا يعود إليه المترجم، لكن من الجائز أن نستخدمه يوما لبناء قائمة من الكلمات كذاكرة ترجمة تستخدمها البرامج المساعدة للمترجم لاقتراح ترجمات سريعة لما يقوم بترجمته.--[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:09, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

4) هل يوجد لجنة تحكيم تختار الأنسب من بين المقترحات المقدمة لكل مصطلح وما هي مؤهلات أعضائها إن وجدت؟
:المصطلحات نختارها بالتوافق، لا يزعم أحد هنا أن له من الخبرة ما تحكمه في مساهمات الآخرين. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:09, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

5) هل تتوفر خدمة نسخ احتياطي خارجي موثوقة تحفظ ما تم انجازه في حال حصل عطل - لا سمح الله - وفقدت محتويات الموقع؟
:لدينا نسخة احتياطية الآن، وسيكون هذا بشكل منتظم إن شاء الله. --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 04:39, 22 يوليو 2007 (PDT)
::يمكنني المساعدة في هذا الأمر. أتمنى ممن لديه مسئولية هذا الأمر الاتصال بي. --[[مستخدم:Techana|تقانة]] 13:00, 23 يوليو 2007 (PDT)
:::شكرا على العرض، أعتقد عدنان يتكفل بالأمر --[[مستخدم:Hosny|خالد حسني]] 14:52, 23 يوليو 2007 (PDT)

6) وأخيراً، يستحسن لو وضع بعض المشاركين من أهل العربية صفحة على الموقع تبين باختصار بعض أدوات الترجمة مثل الاشتقاق والنحت ونحوهما.

مستخدم:Mfarag

2008-08-03T13:26:56Z

Mfarag: صفحة جديدة: السلام عليكم مرحبا في صفحتي الشخصية على الويكي آرابايز :)

السلام عليكم
مرحبا في صفحتي الشخصية على الويكي آرابايز :)